Summary of Women in Religion

Comment by PH214 Youstbi Djuanvat on October 20, 2009 at 2:44pm

Dear Lori,

"I don't think Jesus saw women as mere objects. I think he was magnificent in appreciating all genders. Obviously, men of that time still did not see it that way." Many christian men today still don't see it still. Most conservative denominations within Christianity reject the notion of women clergy. They insisted that the bible, and God tell them so. The new wave of christianity, a wave of jeans, t-shirt, and flip flop christians is against unequality of any means. Including unequality of genders in the church.

We have two views here. Two of them quote the bible, claim theirs are from God. If there are 2 doctrines contradicting each other, one of them must be wrong right? If we try to find who is right and who is wrong from the bible, the fight will never end. Since both use the bible.

But I agree with you, women should be able to lead churches. Hopefully the new generations ahead will be more liberal than all of us today.

Youstbi

Comment by Roman Kozlowski on October 20, 2009 at 2:57pm

"Let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak, but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says." (1st Corinthians 14:34).

Comment by Roman Kozlowski on October 20, 2009 at 3:11pm

Yes, as above, according to the bible, you are the lesser, so keep schtum and obay your male masters.

What absolute shite!

Comment by PH214 Lori T. on October 21, 2009 at 12:01pm

It seems we can use the Bible to argue both sides. I don't think just the Bible said to treat women that way. Many gods believed that women were lesser. I'm reading the story about Antignone and it is very sexually biased.

I know that certain countries also still believe in repressing women. We'll never be able to get rid of it completely. Times have changed, but some of the mentalities haven't. Even in today's world.

Comment by Jeff H on October 21, 2009 at 3:58pm

Roman, you have certainly graduated the John S school of "Shite Disturbing"

The word for "Subjection" is was a Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use, it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden".

Context Roman! You claim a theological background, demonstrate it.

Corinth was a chaotic place, a Church with issues. Paul is very purposeful in trying to establish order in the assembly. When I was in the military, I had to refer to my so call superiors based on their rank, not capacity to perform. In civilian life, I put my family first. I rank myself behind them, not out of compulsion, but out of love. That is the word usage here.

The first person Jesus told He was the Messiah was a woman. The first person to be told of the resurrection was a woman. Paul held all equal, man-woman, Jew-Gentile, slave-free. That is the truth of the New Testament. All are equally sinful. All are equally in need of Grace. Grace is equally available to all.

Comment by Molly Goodman on October 25, 2009 at 12:00pm

Lori-

I agree with what you are saying...this is what most of my posts have been about too. The biggest problem I see, that you call out as well, is: how are we supposed to gain respect if we don't respect ourselves? You brought up the way some women dress. When we go around flaunting our bodies, having "blonde" moments, and objectifying ourselves, how can men respect us?

We must respect and believe in ourselves before anyone else will.

Comment by Chandra Fudge on October 26, 2009 at 2:36pm

I think it's all about individual morals. Who is the 'Judge and Jury' when it comes to what is seen as respecting ourselves.

Molly, in your comment you ask how men can respect us if we go around "Flaunting our bodies, having "blonde" moments, and objectifying ourselves" I say this with absolutely no disrespect, but that's the kind of stereotyping and prejudice women are still having to face and struggle against. Just because someone else finds for example, revealing and provocative clothing and different parts of the sex trade as a lack of morals and decency, doesn’t mean everyone does. Prostitution is often coined the ‘oldest profession in the world’ Sex has been around forever and people continue to be ashamed and find a dirtiness in it. Sex is not dirty or something to be ashamed of. If a woman is self confident and proud of her sexuality, she should be commended for it. Not treated with disrespect and being told she is setting back the women’s movement by it.

Comment by Roman Kozlowski on October 26, 2009 at 3:01pm

Quite right Chandra.
So men can get away with it and women can't.

I will therefore only give succour and support to religions or philosophies were both sexes in their intellectual aspirations are totally regarded as equal, and nothing more.

Comment by PH214 Lori T. on October 26, 2009 at 4:04pm

Chandra,

I agree with you. Not everyone sees it as demoralizing or "sleezy" (for lack of a better word). Unfortunately, we are bound by the stereotypes already set in place. A woman can say "just because I dress this way doesn't mean I am this way." Well, unfortunately it isn't seen that way by everyone. The color of skin is still sometimes prejudiced against as well. Obviously not every stereotype is true.

Women did not make up the rules. Men see it how they want to see it - and so do other women. It's the nature of the beast.

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