Big Bang and Other Thoughts

Comment by James S Saint on November 6, 2009 at 2:48am

Elohim is the Principle by which things come about.
Nature is those things coming about.
The Principle never changes.
Nature is constantly changing.

It is the difference between the Creator and the Created. But this is one of those issues largely misunderstood and misrepresented by "the followers".

Comment by gneognostic on November 6, 2009 at 8:10am

Ok, I made a promise not to argue about creationism, but I'd be happy to answer some of the questions (although maybe they're rhetorical, and you aren't interested in the answers)

>>If it happened out of nothingness, what is the point of life here on Earth?

my take is that meaning (and purpose) is something that humans make for themselves. it's not an inherent feature of the universe, it's only job is to keep on existing.

>then why were so many things created for a purpose (one example - plants create oxygen)
plants don't create oxygen any more than animals create carbon dioxide - to plants, oxygen is a waste product (after they've made sugar out of CO2, and water, oxygen is left over). life is all about finding things to eat, and eating them.

>>If we evolved from monkeys, why did evolution all of a sudden stop?

evolution hasn't stopped. Large evolutionary changes take place over millions of years, and the human species has only been paying attention for the last few hundred. still, in that time, we've noticed some interesting evolutionary changes in other species - the peppered moth has changed color, twice, in response to changing bark colors; certain species of snakes have been getting longer; a new species of mosquito has adapted for life in the london subways.

also, the larger evolutionary changes are supported by the fossil record - We'll find fossil A, radiometrically dated to say 75 million years back, and a fossil C dated to 68 million, and a fossil B, which looks like it's halfway between the two, from 71 million years ago. evolution explains transitions like this extremely well, which is why it has so much explanatory power.

>>Nature does not involve thoughts or feelings like humans do. Our DNA make up cannot be explained by naturalism.

Many species clearly have thoughts and feelings - animals exhibit planning, grieving, rejoicing, etc. We seem to be the only species with a richly developed language and a symbolic relationship to the world, but that's not unexplainable by scientific means.

>> we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.' Ephesians 2:8-10

Many christians would argue that evolution is completely compatible with christianity - it is simply the tool god used to make human beings. in that narrative, we evolved from other social primates to do god's work in the world.

Ok, to reiterate, because I don't want to start a shit-storm, I did not post this because I want to argue - only to explain the evolutionary viewpoint. If anyone disagrees and wants to argue, good for you, but I'm not the one to do it with.

Comment by PH214 Lori T. on November 6, 2009 at 10:25am

gneognostic,

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the input - I really do. I guess my next question would be (and I'm not arguing - just a question of mine) - where does evolution fit into Adam and Eve. God created Adam from his image and they were the first humans. So, where does evolution fit into that?

Again, I'm not trying to argue. It's just a thought I had.

Thanks for answering!

Comment by db on November 6, 2009 at 1:46pm

ROFLMFAO !!!! Setting up the Big Bang and other thoughts with laughter !!!!

SHIT !! GOD DAMN !! GET OFF YOUR ASS AND JAM !!

Ok, to reiterate, because I don't want to start a shit-storm, I did not post this because I want to argue - only to explain the evolutionary viewpoint. If anyone disagrees and wants to argue, good for you, but I'm not the one to do it with.

I'm not going to argue at all !!! I think DNA has been redefined to DO NOT ARGUE !!! Oh, this is too funny... I'm sorry if this offends you in any way onegnostic... but you really made my day.. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time !!! Simply from the fact that I have a very interesting theory of the Big Bang and it causes a shit storm every time I mention it... I guess because it deals with black holes, white holes, pink holes, P-Holes, P-brains, M-Theory, Membranes, 11th and 12th Dimensions, the dESIRED aFFECT, and now.... I guess I should call this "point" of entry.... (as a way to jump to the new theory of the Big Bang.........)

"Hole Folding".


Let's go and grab Roberto, Reverend King, and TuHanTU.... and wake up them up first with "Hole Folding" and see if the Hole Folding Theory is supported by this discussion. I'm using a dESIRED aFFECT module as part of this discussion because it's integral to the "other thoughts".


Here Goes:


Jump Here:

The Hole Folder


Now, that onegnostic had to argue (with himself)... with the evidence in front of you eyes....onegnostic healed the situation with himself in regards to arguing... again (with himself)... and now that argument issue is over with ... and I love it when these type of things occur during a serious discussion..... let's jump around multi-dimensionally now with the "other thoughts"...


Watch this video to get everyone on the same page of what's going on with what I'm discussing;




db

Comment by gneognostic on November 6, 2009 at 4:54pm

@db, I don't always understand what you say, but I always enjoy it. excellent video. I don't mean my DNA principle (I actually think of it as DNE, Do Not Engage in conversations which I will inevitably find infuriating and unfulfilling) to mean people cannot dispute the ideas putting forth, I just mean I don't deal with conflict well. I try to live my life peacefully, and when discussions turn into debates turn unto arguments, as they often do on RG, I find myself uncomfortable and unhappy. That was an excellent video, btw.

@Lori, a literal interpretation of adam and eve, two literal human beings created 6000 years ago from whom all humanity is descended, is clearly incompatible with evolution. Likewise, the tlingit story of Coyote juggling his eyeballs to impress the girls and accidentally throwing one so high it made the star arcturus is incompatible with our current understanding of astronomy.

this doesn't mean the story of adam and eve is without merit - we can read it, instead of literal truth, as a poetic metaphor describing the emergence of human consciousness (or of any other things). When we explain things to our kids, we use simplified stories like cabbage patches and storks rather than the literal truth, because we don't think they're ready for a literal understanding. Maybe the story in genesis is god's way of telling an infant humanity where it came from, and left us to figure out the literal truth when we "grow up" and start investigating the questions ourself. Or maybe god had nothing to do with it, and it's a beautiful story about a perfect garden, shared around camp fires in the desert 3000 years ago that eventually got written down and taken as fact.

Comment by Jeff H on November 6, 2009 at 10:31pm

Just one of many sites with information worth reviewing.

http://www.carm.org/secular-movements/evolution

Comment by db on November 6, 2009 at 11:59pm

onegnostic,

That makes 2 of us here on RG that step up to the bat and admit something very important. Admitting something that it is important has to be done in a way that grabs the attention of the audience so they listen will 100% clarity.

I'm in a huge conflict that occurred about 9 hours ago and having the understanding that I am in a conflict and trying to live my life peacefully (quoting you) is in full swing in my own home. It's a conflict that surfaced after an email was sent to me and I used my intellect and instinct to find out what the root cause and eradicate it from existence. That means eliminating something that exists in my reality that makes me uncomfortable and unhappy. Quite a few things transpired and I am not in the position at this moment to even enjoy your discussion you started about BIG BANG and other thoughts. It's unfortunate that I'm in this state, but some things right now take a front burner, and I have to take care of them.


I'm sorry I'm not in the mood to supply input... as much as I would like to... the truth of something was made clear to me that I'm working on resolving and I'm not dealing with it properly... because I'm so angry right now and have anger management issues.


But I really love your sincerity and it happened at the right time.

I'll be back...

db

Comment by Laili Dalloul on November 7, 2009 at 10:56am

Lori I like how you bring up the point that if there was evolution, why did it stop? and why dont the monkeys now evolve into human beings. That made me stop and think, I have never thought about that before! great point!

Comment by James S Saint on November 7, 2009 at 2:38pm

The most recent evidence from "Ardi" is that humans did not evolve from apes, but rather apes evolved from humans. Of course, if you merely look around at society, that is an easy conclusion to draw anyway. ]:o)

Comment by James S Saint on November 7, 2009 at 2:39pm

db,

Realize that Quantum Science is a Woman, not a Man.

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